Thunder head mission - Guild Wars Forums

Maria The Princess · Apr 11, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

hello

recently i was helping a Guildie to go through mission and first came as ranger trapper. finally i had no choise then swiching to my monk, changing my build etc.

my point is: Why is it that spot in the game when it is almost impossible to find a monk? first run we went we had 2 monks (they were both in same guild, not ours) and as soon as we got to the Keep, they both said that if each 1 of us (other 6 people) will not pay them 1k each, to each they will leave, and that mission is impossible to do without a monk. 2 players didnt agree to pay so they LEFT!!! when we all died our team spent 30 min to find 1 monk. we didnt find second monk cuz i got fed up of wating so i swaped to monk.... and we left. oviously during the mission there were a couple of morans spamming HEAL HEAL HEAL, but evry mission has a few of those.....

why is that the only mission where it is so hard find 2 monks? (*which are not guildies, will not pull the s---t described above or will not just leave in the middle? theres as many monks as other characters (in game in general) why do they not play in Thunder head keep? is it the mission itself or general peoples attitude?

Former Ruling · Apr 11, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Because Thunderhead is an undesirable mission to complete.

FACTS (percentages are sort of my opinion, based on facts):
- 90% of people put off doing THK on characters after their first. Because the further characters were 90% of the time just for Skill Unlocks/Farming/etc, so theres no real reason to do THK and the Fire Islands with them straight off.
- To make the problem worse only like 5% or less of people actually stick with Monk as their first character, mainly because Wa/Ra/Ele are all three Classes people know and can Identify with, so they choice them. That, and monks take alot of abuse in certain chokepoints in the game so they are pressured into rolling a better suited character as their first to leanr the game with.
- THK, though being on the same level difficulty wise as any of the other missions, has gained a name that makes it sound like HELL on earth. This is mainly due to it being the chokepoint to get on the Fire Islands, so you meet alot of Retards. 90% of problems with the mission are people aggroing too much (noob leeroys), not being infused (just noob), or forgeting the king cant die (forgetful). So mission-repeaters really dont even touch THK.

All in All, this does make for a lack of monkage (or even decent player-age) in THK.

But That can be taken as a good thing too, since if your in THK, you are at a point where you should start looking for a good guild anyway, so its an oppertunity to meet and get with a guild, that can then help.

Rathcail · Apr 11, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I see two monks in Thunderhead all the time. Standing there with the rest of the henchies.

Maria The Princess · Apr 11, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathcail

I see two monks in Thunderhead all the time. Standing there with the rest of the henchies.

hm..... maby those? it was really s---ty what they pulled
i got about 100k in my storage, so i cant cair less to pay 2k, but just the fact of doin what they did!!!!

Former Ruling · Apr 11, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Henching the mission is completely possible. But not the best choice here.

Try with your first character through to get the feel of PUGS and doing things with them. Also a first timer wont really know all they need too to use henchies in this way.

And Henching is the easiest in this mission with a healing class (an E/Mo or Monk), which defeats the propose of even using henchies, since you ARE the class that everyone is looking for lol.

Maria The Princess · Apr 11, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Henching the mission is completely possible. But not the best choice here.

Try with your first character through to get the feel of PUGS and doing things with them. Also a first timer wont really know all they need too to use henchies in this way.

And Henching is the easiest in this mission with a healing class (an E/Mo or Monk), which defeats the propose of even using henchies, since you ARE the class that everyone is looking for lol.

the only problem with henching mission, is that at a certain point the team has to split in 2 to patrol both exits.... and henchies dont really understand it
lol

SnoopJeDi · Apr 11, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

the only problem with henching mission, is that at a certain point the team has to split in 2 to patrol both exits.... and henchies dont really understand it
lol

Uh, it's really unnecessary to do that. In fact, if you're in a PUG, I say doing that halves your chances of completing the mission sucessfully (from experience. I regularly log on my monk and help groups with that mish).

My tactic is always to camp around Jalis and let the mobs come to us.

Murder In China · Apr 11, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

The best possible way to beat Thunderhead Keep with only henchies is camping the king. Plain and simple.

Jenosavel · Apr 11, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopJeDi

Uh, it's really unnecessary to do that. In fact, if you're in a PUG, I say doing that halves your chances of completing the mission sucessfully (from experience. I regularly log on my monk and help groups with that mish).

My tactic is always to camp around Jalis and let the mobs come to us.

Agreed 100%. The lure of the catapults and NPC ghosties, however, makes most PUGs reject this notion outright.

Maria The Princess · Apr 11, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

as Former Ruling posted (and its right) most people in there are doin it for first time... so getting a PUG is 80% chance... unless its a guild group. band you know how it is.... evry1 doin whatever they want and dont isten.

we end up finishing it, finally with guildies, after about 10 tries with PUGs who either let me alone with the king against Mursaat or just leave half way

Xpl0iter · Apr 11, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

THK mission is really not hard, 3 warriors, and rest henchman can do good job too.
having a tank ele at times helps, done it that way my self.
I usualy take my self, 5 other regular people, and 2 henchman, and it works without an y issue, like someone sid before, just camp the king and ur all set to win. but make sure to have 3 warriors with u, or any 3 tanks who can take the abuse while dishing some damage out, 2 of them need to move back and forth between cats and back to jalis to keep a lower number of mobs from entering.

Regards
An Elementalist.

Ole Man Bourbon · Apr 11, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

I like the split into two groups and blast-them-as-they-come-in method. Everyone needs to be ready to go to the other side to help in a pinch, but also to return to their posts quickly, and it's a cinch.

noice1 · Apr 11, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Back on my first character an Elementalist, this was a minor annoyance to complete. I eventually found my way into a decent group that had members who could take orders (and someone who would give them). Last week though on my Warrior, it was Hell. I spent the entire DAY trying to get the mission done. Whether it was a horribly formed group which didn't work together, a bold group with no Monks (basically one necro to do some healing and the rest Warriors, etc), or just groups that fell apart at the end..nothing worked.

So finally, FINALLY I get into a group (already past midnight at this point) and we get to the end and CAMP (never been in a group that did it before) and it worked beautifully (had a MM with us too). Never will I do that mission again! People dropped like crazy on PUGs.

Maria The Princess · Apr 11, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by noice1

Back on my first character an Elementalist, this was a minor annoyance to complete. I eventually found my way into a decent group that had members who could take orders (and someone who would give them). Last week though on my Warrior, it was Hell. I spent the entire DAY trying to get the mission done. Whether it was a horribly formed group which didn't work together, a bold group with no Monks (basically one necro to do some healing and the rest Warriors, etc), or just groups that fell apart at the end..nothing worked.

So finally, FINALLY I get into a group (already past midnight at this point) and we get to the end and CAMP (never been in a group that did it before) and it worked beautifully (had a MM with us too). Never will I do that mission again! People dropped like crazy on PUGs.

the worse thing ever is finding a monk...... or being a monk there, you gety spams at you: HEAL HEAL HEAL or HEAL KING or NOOB STOP SLEEPING AND HEAL!!! dont they realise that a monk has energy limit, and if youre a swords warior and try to tank, you WILL die, even with the most high end monk in game

Kook~NBK~ · Apr 11, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the only thing hard about that mission is getting in a good group. The monk shortage is easily overcome by using Alesia & Lena. Sorry to say it, but they often do a better job of it than real people.

And I'll echo the sentiments of most here - it's easiest to do when camping the King. Throw in the "buglight" trick with a stance tank holding the torch, at the beacon platform by the King and it's a snap.

Maria The Princess · Apr 11, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the only thing hard about that mission is getting in a good group. The monk shortage is easily overcome by using Alesia & Lena. Sorry to say it, but they often do a better job of it than real people.

And I'll echo the sentiments of most here - it's easiest to do when camping the King. Throw in the "buglight" trick with a stance tank holding the torch, at the beacon platform by the King and it's a snap.

its true that hench monks got better then some real monks (after 1000 updates) but anouther problem is that most of people who try to finish mission are noobs and PUGs, and in most cases they start to leave party as soon as they see Aleisa apearing.

Edge Martinez · Apr 11, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

I think camping the king is a good fallback point, but everyone knows you can trap the top of the bridges. We had problems getting a monk, so we went 4 trapper rangers, 3 Mesmers and a Necro. You never have to leave the tops of the bridges. A ranger and a mesmer man the cats on the weak side and everyone else camps the busy gate. Pets are wonderful because they keep dieing downstairs and create a minion factory. As long as one ranger has predatory season, that's all the healing you need, but it never hurts to have one of the mesmers or necros run a healer secondary with 2 or 3 spot heals. The hardest part is actually getting to the courtyard. There are alot of different ways to do this mission, some listed here, some not, but they've all worked. I think this whole game is playable without monk primaries.

Cherno · Apr 11, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

I like the split into two groups and blast-them-as-they-come-in method. Everyone needs to be ready to go to the other side to help in a pinch, but also to return to their posts quickly, and it's a cinch.

While this method may work, as any method can have it's own chances, it is really not the best way to do it. Doing so can cause a number of problems that are resolved by camping the king.

Having your group split over two areas makes more work for the monk(s) to have to run back and forth. There are a lot of times when both sides get hit at the same time, often times one with a boss. All the while the king is up at the top. One group fails, where are you going to go? Straight up to the king. Keep your group centralized at the top keeps all party members within easy heal range of the monks, as well as keeping the king within range.

Being in the center sets up choke points for your enemy, rather than spreading yourself out thin. If they are bunched up, eles and necros will love you for making a nice bunching for more effective kills.

Works even better if you tank with the torch, but some people don't like that, they feel it is cheating, so whatever.

With or without henchies, this is the best way I have found. The problem is always getting the groups to listen. Most of the time, people who haven't been to challenge areas (SF, UW, FoW, Tombs, etc) don't understand the concept of clean agro control or taking advantage of held items. Because the previous missions never really called for it. It is a good place to teach them.

A lot of times you can find people in other missions doing things again, but this is one that so many people have bad memories of, they don't want to do it again unless necessary. So you don't see a lot of monks. Also, by this time, there aren't any elites that they can't have already gotten without having to go on to the fire islands. Many want to just go on to FoW, UW, SF, etc and they can do that since ascention is done. Fewer and fewer monks are seen from Dragon's Lair on.

Maria The Princess · Apr 11, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

A lot of times you can find people in other missions doing things again, but this is one that so many people have bad memories of, they don't want to do it again unless necessary. So you don't see a lot of monks. Also, by this time, there aren't any elites that they can't have already gotten without having to go on to the fire islands. Many want to just go on to FoW, UW, SF, etc and they can do that since ascention is done. Fewer and fewer monks are seen from Dragon's Lair on.

yep thats true... a few times we even converted a nuker into monk (the last mission)cuz there were not more then 5 monks, and all afk, lol or just ignoring invites and pms

and one more thing, im sorry for those who dont have a helpful and active guild...

Ranger Rog · Apr 11, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

There are quite a few missions I will go back and replay with my Monk just for fun, but THK isnt one of them. By the time I got my monk to THK I was pretty much just playing with henchies and guildies due to the frustration of playing in pugs on earlier missions. As it was my second character through the game, I knew what to expect so I just henched it and completed it first time rather than face the pain of pugs. It has been said before that THK is a noob filter (hate that word) for the fire island missions, I'm guessing that most monks just dont want to share in the pain and frustration of all those noobs being filtered when they can just do it easily on thier own.
I do go back and help guildies through it, just me and 1 other plus henchies works well with a near 100% success rate.

Apr 11, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03	#1
Maria The Princess Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Aequitas Deis	Thunder head mission hello recently i was helping a Guildie to go through mission and first came as ranger trapper. finally i had no choise then swiching to my monk, changing my build etc. my point is: Why is it that spot in the game when it is almost impossible to find a monk? first run we went we had 2 monks (they were both in same guild, not ours) and as soon as we got to the Keep, they both said that if each 1 of us (other 6 people) will not pay them 1k each, to each they will leave, and that mission is impossible to do without a monk. 2 players didnt agree to pay so they LEFT!!! when we all died our team spent 30 min to find 1 monk. we didnt find second monk cuz i got fed up of wating so i swaped to monk.... and we left. oviously during the mission there were a couple of morans spamming HEAL HEAL HEAL, but evry mission has a few of those..... why is that the only mission where it is so hard find 2 monks? (*which are not guildies, will not pull the s---t described above or will not just leave in the middle? theres as many monks as other characters (in game in general) why do they not play in Thunder head keep? is it the mission itself or general peoples attitude?

Apr 11, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23	#2
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	Because Thunderhead is an undesirable mission to complete. FACTS (percentages are sort of my opinion, based on facts): - 90% of people put off doing THK on characters after their first. Because the further characters were 90% of the time just for Skill Unlocks/Farming/etc, so theres no real reason to do THK and the Fire Islands with them straight off. - To make the problem worse only like 5% or less of people actually stick with Monk as their first character, mainly because Wa/Ra/Ele are all three Classes people know and can Identify with, so they choice them. That, and monks take alot of abuse in certain chokepoints in the game so they are pressured into rolling a better suited character as their first to leanr the game with. - THK, though being on the same level difficulty wise as any of the other missions, has gained a name that makes it sound like HELL on earth. This is mainly due to it being the chokepoint to get on the Fire Islands, so you meet alot of Retards. 90% of problems with the mission are people aggroing too much (noob leeroys), not being infused (just noob), or forgeting the king cant die (forgetful). So mission-repeaters really dont even touch THK. All in All, this does make for a lack of monkage (or even decent player-age) in THK. But That can be taken as a good thing too, since if your in THK, you are at a point where you should start looking for a good guild anyway, so its an oppertunity to meet and get with a guild, that can then help.

Apr 11, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23	#3
Rathcail Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2006	I see two monks in Thunderhead all the time. Standing there with the rest of the henchies.

Apr 11, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41	#5
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	Henching the mission is completely possible. But not the best choice here. Try with your first character through to get the feel of PUGS and doing things with them. Also a first timer wont really know all they need too to use henchies in this way. And Henching is the easiest in this mission with a healing class (an E/Mo or Monk), which defeats the propose of even using henchies, since you ARE the class that everyone is looking for lol.

Apr 11, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17	#8
Murder In China Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: /B/Chan Guild: Looking for one Profession: W/	The best possible way to beat Thunderhead Keep with only henchies is camping the king. Plain and simple.

Apr 11, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24	#10
Maria The Princess Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Aequitas Deis	as Former Ruling posted (and its right) most people in there are doin it for first time... so getting a PUG is 80% chance... unless its a guild group. band you know how it is.... evry1 doin whatever they want and dont isten. we end up finishing it, finally with guildies, after about 10 tries with PUGs who either let me alone with the king against Mursaat or just leave half way

Apr 11, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30	#11
Xpl0iter Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Just A Digital Pimp Slap [DPS] - Guild Co-Leader Profession: E/	THK mission is really not hard, 3 warriors, and rest henchman can do good job too. having a tank ele at times helps, done it that way my self. I usualy take my self, 5 other regular people, and 2 henchman, and it works without an y issue, like someone sid before, just camp the king and ur all set to win. but make sure to have 3 warriors with u, or any 3 tanks who can take the abuse while dishing some damage out, 2 of them need to move back and forth between cats and back to jalis to keep a lower number of mobs from entering. Regards An Elementalist.

Apr 11, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41	#12
Ole Man Bourbon Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Atlanta Guild: GONG Profession: W/E	I like the split into two groups and blast-them-as-they-come-in method. Everyone needs to be ready to go to the other side to help in a pinch, but also to return to their posts quickly, and it's a cinch.

Apr 11, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59	#13
noice1 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: IL Guild: [ARIN] Profession: R/	Back on my first character an Elementalist, this was a minor annoyance to complete. I eventually found my way into a decent group that had members who could take orders (and someone who would give them). Last week though on my Warrior, it was Hell. I spent the entire DAY trying to get the mission done. Whether it was a horribly formed group which didn't work together, a bold group with no Monks (basically one necro to do some healing and the rest Warriors, etc), or just groups that fell apart at the end..nothing worked. So finally, FINALLY I get into a group (already past midnight at this point) and we get to the end and CAMP (never been in a group that did it before) and it worked beautifully (had a MM with us too). Never will I do that mission again! People dropped like crazy on PUGs.

Apr 11, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45	#15
Kook~NBK~ Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A little chalet outside Drok's Guild: Natural Born Killaz	I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the only thing hard about that mission is getting in a good group. The monk shortage is easily overcome by using Alesia & Lena. Sorry to say it, but they often do a better job of it than real people. And I'll echo the sentiments of most here - it's easiest to do when camping the King. Throw in the "buglight" trick with a stance tank holding the torch, at the beacon platform by the King and it's a snap.

Apr 11, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05	#17
Edge Martinez Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC Guild: DKL	I think camping the king is a good fallback point, but everyone knows you can trap the top of the bridges. We had problems getting a monk, so we went 4 trapper rangers, 3 Mesmers and a Necro. You never have to leave the tops of the bridges. A ranger and a mesmer man the cats on the weak side and everyone else camps the busy gate. Pets are wonderful because they keep dieing downstairs and create a minion factory. As long as one ranger has predatory season, that's all the healing you need, but it never hurts to have one of the mesmers or necros run a healer secondary with 2 or 3 spot heals. The hardest part is actually getting to the courtyard. There are alot of different ways to do this mission, some listed here, some not, but they've all worked. I think this whole game is playable without monk primaries.

Apr 11, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20	#20
Ranger Rog Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Guild: [TOG]	There are quite a few missions I will go back and replay with my Monk just for fun, but THK isnt one of them. By the time I got my monk to THK I was pretty much just playing with henchies and guildies due to the frustration of playing in pugs on earlier missions. As it was my second character through the game, I knew what to expect so I just henched it and completed it first time rather than face the pain of pugs. It has been said before that THK is a noob filter (hate that word) for the fire island missions, I'm guessing that most monks just dont want to share in the pain and frustration of all those noobs being filtered when they can just do it easily on thier own. I do go back and help guildies through it, just me and 1 other plus henchies works well with a near 100% success rate.